Although, that said, for wire thickness, it's the Amps that count right? i.e. Clean this mess up before we all end up in jail, the test tubes and the scale. NM-b works on 60 amp breaker if the operating load falls over 50 but not over 55 amps. 6 AWG NM-B is rated 55 Amp @ 60 degree C (most conservative). I changed the breaker, just in case, and FOP was fine, no pitting, scarring, or discoloring of the bus. Roger #14 09-28-07, 11:59 AM S. squale. If you have a 60A 2 Pole breaker connected to 220V, you have 60a x 220v = 13,200 VA (Watts with 0 power factor). As to the use of single pole breakers for a multiwire branch circuit, that is a code violation unless the breakers are tied together with a handle tie from the manufacturer. However, a double pole breaker is essentially two breakers tied together with a handle tie, so it can … The voltages keep moving up. Really an MWBC needs common maintenance shutoff but not common trip. Better yet, you can use a common trip 2 pole breaker. Re: how many amps can mc4 wires handle in parallel? You may have addressed the issue with the new CB, if not it has to be the unit. Hi Greg, I’m Blake from The Home Depot. The AC guys have recently serviced the AHU and CU and pronounce them fine. For 120 volts and 20 amps it will be at 2400 watts. So yes, a 14 gauge wire will safely carry 20 amps, no problem.You get 50% more current capacity with 12 gauge wire compared to 14 gauge wire.So the 12 gauge wiring would trip immediately if there was a dead short. That depends on the amount of current. (max 2 MiB). Most equipment is now rated for 125 and 250 and the National Electrical Code lists 120/240 or 120/208 as the nominal voltages for dwelling units. So if you divide the available watts by 120V you get 110 amps on a perfectly balanced Panel. Jeffrey is correct. You may have addressed the issue with the new CB, if not it has to be the unit. These can usually be found online. See the data sheet for details. Still, that will not go over 60amps. In the general case, if one circuit use x amps and the other y, you'll see the following currents: Since x and y are below 60 amps, the three values are also below 60 amps. SUBMIT AN ANSWER. I'm trying to wrap my mind around how many amps 220V wire (two hot poles) can supply, when it's effectively supplying a multi wire branch circuit (sub panel)... My question is this: You will have 60 amps of 240 volt power available. Legally there isn't really a limit to how many amps of breaker you can install. If you add a 60 amp, 240 volt breaker you will have 135 amps on one side and 140 amps on the other. Not one of the answers given below is correct. Answer for USA, Canada and countries running a 60 Hertz supply service.A two pole 20 amp breaker will handle 20 amps x 240 volts = 4800 watts. 60-amp 240-volt circuit: 60 amps x 240 volts = 14,400 watts. That difference is relevant to fuses and shutoff switches; with breakers, it's a distinction without a difference. Similarly, can 10 gauge wire handle 35 amps? When a single circuit is in use, the current will come from one phase and return via the neutral. @Ecnerwal Haha, yup, my bad 120v/240v... Don't know why I keep that in my head... https://diy.stackexchange.com/questions/132996/60a-two-pole-breaker-supplying-a-sub-panel-220v-how-many-amps-for-separate-1/132999#132999. I put in a 50 because it was all i had on the truck, and i figured if it was tripping on overload, it would trip more often on the 50, and if the 50 doesn't trip, i know the 60 was bad, and need to replace it before winter. For example, if you have 120 volts and 15 amps, it will be at 1800 watts. Is there gas in the car? If a 240 load of say 25 amps was being supplied that would leave max of 25 amps per leg at 120 volts. Thread Starter. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Join Date: Jan 2005. This is the preferred method. The 60a current will come from one phase and return on the other one. Circuit 50 amp 240 volt 50 amp x 240 volt 12,000 watt. Or a load of 120A @ 110v (i.e two loads of 60A @ 110v on each branch) before tripping. A typical house has all breakers summing up to more than the main breaker), Click here to upload your image
Follow the code and you are safe. I've never seen one without and don't know how that would work. But if you plug such a device into 220 V, the current generated is only 13.64 Amps (there is no need for amp breakers). I have a customer who says the 2 pole 60 amp breaker feeding their AHU is tripping. It doesn't matter how you divide it up so long as you never exceed your available wattage. When it comes to designing a circuit breaker panel, you must understand how the appliances "pull" current. That would be a #6 copper or a #4 aluminum. A lot of power above that is a waste of money. Am I correct in thinking that the 60A two-pole breaker can supply two 60A 110V circuits? Thanks also Retired Master Electrician... converting into Watts & back out makes it more understandable, thx! Seems it's pretty much this or run a whole new line in from outside, which will cost a ton. For example, plugging a heater rated for 20 amps into a 15-amp circuit wired with 14-gauge wire poses a distinct danger. Thanks for the feedback but see I'm putting Christmas lights up and i balanced the amps out on these circuit breakers with the amp meter. Location: northern, NJ. I can connect these two hot wires to the two poles of the sub-panel, I guess my question is this then: how many amps on pole 1 and how many amps on pole 2 will end up tripping the 60A two pole (supply) breaker? The main breaker is marked with the value of protection (like 100 amps) on the breaker handle. ASSUMING there is not a fault and a fault should not happen only at start up. That means you have 13,200 available watts. Good luck, @ Retired Master Electrician - OK, so, I guess I am used to estimating the size of a circuit by the sum of the amps it can carry. If the load truly is 1200 amps, then a 1500 amp capacity service is needed. If it falls on 56 amps you cannot use 6/3 G nm-b and a 60 amp breaker. Better yet, you can use a common trip 2 pole breaker. That's it. An important note to remember is that circuit breakers can only handle about 80% of their overall amperage. From NEC Table 310.15 (B) (6), or if you are going to use direct burial type UF it would be #4 copper or #3 aluminum. This is the new millennium, this ain't 1984. These are both 20 amp breaker and I'm at 18.6 and 18.9 on the other but they didn't blow after burning the lights for over 4 hours but the circuit breakers were warm to the touch. The larger current rating is for surges. Member. That means you need to install a 60-amp breaker in the panel to control it. You can also provide a link from the web. Most of your household electronics will require just a few amps to run. The neutral will see no current. A 14 gauge wire would not trip the breaker and it could smolder for a while. However, circuits should not be loaded to greater than 80 percent of their maximum capacity for long periods, which makes 1,920 watts the safe maximum for a 20-amp circuit. As to the use of single pole breakers for a multiwire branch circuit, that is a code violation unless the breakers are tied together with a handle tie from the manufacturer. Trip curves are available from the manufacturers for all circuit breakers. This breaker is either factory mounted or can be added by either bolting it in or snapping it into place. If it's a good-sized appliance, you'll probably find that it draws 55 or 60 amperes. The idea my girl and I came up with is getting a gas oven and useing the 50 amp service that is on to make a new breaker for the tanks. For standard 120-volt service, a 20-amp breaker can support up to 2,400 watts on a single circuit. a 200 amp panel can be loaded to a calculated load of 200 amps. Link copied to clipboard. So, no need to split in two 30a. In almost any breaker made, the handle-tie will also have the effect of common trip. As long as the breaker is correct for the wire size 5 amps isn’t a big deal. A 60-amp service, for example, is probably inadequate for a modern home. Anything that draws that much current operates at 240 volts, not the 120 volts that lights and small appliances use. Good work but this might be a little bit easier. I saw 5 amps at startup, and 2.2 amps running load. @Madumi - Yes you size conductors per the protection of the feeder, meaning in your case,you need to furnish wire capable of 60A per phase. The 60 amp limit, hopefully in a main breaker, is the maximum allowed amps in actual use at any one time. Continuous load for an RV ...not. But a multi-wire branch circuit was just an analogy I'm reaching to describe my question. A home larger than 2,000 square feet that has central air-conditioning or electric heat probably needs a 200-amp service. i.e. Thanks Jeffrey for your reply... Can I hone the question a bit? It's a 60 because the ahu has 10 kw of backup heat. Heat comes on breaker trips. Similarly, you may ask, how many amps can 6 AWG carry? Your electrician is correct. The breaker that i took out was a 60 amp, bottom of the panel, so only 1 breaker next to it with a small, non constant load. If an appliance attached to a 120V energy source requires 1200 watts to run, it will automatically pull 10 amps of current through the line. (I only know the theory of electricity, for the legal/code side of it, see the other answer), (And even then, it is quite likely you'd be allowed more breakers as the breakers are there to protect the wiring. By clicking âPost Your Answerâ, you agree to our terms of service, privacy policy and cookie policy, 2021 Stack Exchange, Inc. user contributions under cc by-sa, https://diy.stackexchange.com/questions/132996/60a-two-pole-breaker-supplying-a-sub-panel-220v-how-many-amps-for-separate-1/133014#133014. Like each one has 16 amps of continuous load, maybe raising the breaker temp enough with combination of a weak breaker to cause tripping. The 50 amp receptacle will supply 50 amps forever. Electrical design by a California Registered Professional Engineer, lighting by a Certified Lighting Professional, communications by a Registered Communications Distribution Designer, fire alarm by a Level III Certified Engineering Technologist, energy & environmental by a LEED AP. Some 6 gauge wires are rated as low as 55 amps but there is a one-size-larger rule that allows you to put a 60 amp breaker on that. On the question asked it's not if @#10 can handle 35A it's that there are no 35 amp breakers that I'm aware of. _____ Come join the discussion about trade knowledge, tools, certifications, wiring, builds, scales, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more! You should have a Min/Max meter and it should be true RMS. For example, a two-pole breaker at 15 amps on each pole (breaker handle) would supply 240 volts to the appliance on that branch at up to 15 amps, not 30. I guess the question is closer to this: Does a two pole breaker supply 60A to, https://diy.stackexchange.com/questions/132996/60a-two-pole-breaker-supplying-a-sub-panel-220v-how-many-amps-for-separate-1/133263#133263, Did you mean to say "two loads of 60A @110V, one on each branch?". 1600 Amp equipment is a standard size. For example you may have an electric heater which is … For instance, some hot tubs require 60 amps while others only require 30 or 40 amps. If you already have a 50 amp, you should have 6 gauge wire. I talked to an electrician about it and suggest you do the same. Also, handle-ties are not an option if you need AFCI or GFCI. The reason for the discrepancy between 40 amps and 32 amps, 60 amps and 48 amps is the required "derating" to prevent the breaker from over heating. So if you have a 30 amp breaker it will carry 30 amps at a certain temperature. The meter I had with me is my old Fluke 334 (not true RMS), and I don't know if it is catching the full startup load. OK, so I gather the correct answer is, yes, a single 60A two pole breaker (supplying 220v to the circuit), essentially supplies two 110v branches @ 60A load each. The 80% load limitation is correct but I'm trying to keep this simple. As long as the wiring after the breaker is fine for it. The standard for most household circuits are rated either 15 amps or 20 amps. A 100-amp service is good for a home of less than 3,000 square feet that does not have central air-conditioning or electric heat. Rough rule of thumb for residential thermal magnetic circuit breaker on instantaneous operation, 4-10 times the name plate rating 60 amp CB 240 amps-600 amp. Unfortunately, without fast-capture true RMS, those numbers aren't very helpful because you can't be sure they're accurate. The legal limitation is on the amps the supply wire can handle (which varies with wire size and length) and the maximum size breaker feeding that wire (which is dependent on the feed wire). By this standard, the total current draw on a 20-amp circuit shouldn't exceed 16 amps. It's a 60 Amp controller. Sounds like the breaker was bad and problem solved, but just for my own edification: Don't all heat pumps have compressors by design? You can't use tie wire, a nail, or any other unapproved method. Rough rule of thumb for residential thermal magnetic circuit breaker on instantaneous operation, 4-10 times the name plate rating 60 amp CB 240 amps-600 amp. The amperage is the maximum you can use at any one time. Click to see full answer Herein, can a 14 gauge wire handle 20 amps? You can have breaker capacity in excess of the main circuit breaker rating based on the assumption that many of the load devices will only be used for short intervals of time during a day. I’ve seen units under this same scenario (25 amp nameplate) that would cause nuisance trips when a 25-amp breaker was installed and when the 30-amp breaker was put in the trips stopped and there were never any problems. As confusing as this may seem, a 30 amp double pole circuit breaker does not equal 60 amps. The magnetic protection of a thermal magnetic breaker will trip very rapidly with very high current as in a fault condition, but the thermal protection will trip very slowly with a slight overload. You can check 2-zone , 3-zone , 4-zone , and 5-zone mini-split system to see how many amps they run on. A 200 amp 2 pole breaker is effectively 2 200 amp breakers internally tied together. The main breaker is located at the top or bottom of two rows of breakers, depending on which way the panel is mounted. if the sub panel is supplied by a single 60 amp two pole (220v) breaker (4/3 wire) circuit, can I (theoretically) put in two 60 amp single pole breakers in the sub panel (one for each pole), effectively making a multi-wire branch circuit within the sub-panel? You could have a broken heater coil that is grounded. This amp circuit accompanies a voltage requirement of 240 V. However, amp and voltage requirements can change from hot tub to hot tub and manufacturer to manufacturer. 6/3 is normally protected with a 60-amp breaker. Just get it all out of here. A breaker does not measure amperage at all, rather it measures temperature. Landlords and/or property managers usually have an electrician or an engineering firm on retainer to advise owners of electrical ratings of tenant spaces. How many watts can a 60 amp breaker handle? 60A two pole breaker supplying a sub panel (220v) - how many amps for separate 110v legs. RATE. Example: Bigger multi-zone mini-split units usually need amp breakers. JavaScript is disabled. You can use the 100 amp panel off a 60 amp breaker if you determine that it is adequate, but I would suggest that in sizing your feeder wires and conduit it would be a good idea to size them to accomodate 100 amps. Ah, but I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now, VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter, Suite 901, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. You will have 60 amps of 240 volt power available. Any power above that will be 'clipped' (lost). Or, should I understand that the sub panel can only support up to two (theoretical) 30 amp 110v circuits? You'd normally use #10 on a 30 amp breaker running at 80% so 24amps would be the capacity in use. SHARE. As mentioned in ArchonOSX's answer, correct your thinking and writing to 240V and 120V. Start up amps can be in the 60-amp range. Most days my voltmeter shows 242 or 243, in fact. Late to the game here, but 50-amp and 60-amp breakers can take the same wire gauge. I'll edit the post. The 80% you mention is a calculation for continuous circuits and is not used for panel loading. ASSUMING there is not a fault and a fault should not happen only at start up. over these two branched 110V circuits)... Or, > 60A load at 220V to trip the breaker (using the two poles in tandem). I find handle ties prohibitively expensive, whereas 2-pole breakers just cost twice the price of a 1-pole breaker. … it would take > 120A gross load at 110V to trip the breaker (i.e. Circuit 40 amp 240 volt 40 amp x 240 volt 9,600 watt. So, a 1200 amp rated service can handle no more than 960 amps. Your main panel may be 100 amps, and everything in the house totals up to 200 amps, but you may only be using 50 amps at any one time! That means a 15-amp circuit breaker can handle around 12-amps and a 20-amp circuit breaker can handle about 16 amps. To calculate where a circuit breaker will trip, multiply volts by amps. Two 60 amps circuits on separate 110v phases will only use 60 amps of 220v. The majority of hot tubs require a 50 amp circuit. Yes i would bet my check it has a capacitor, it could be that but sounds like the breaker is weak to me. There is the sound of a high amp load starting when the AHU fan kicks on (yes I made sure it was the AHU fan, and not the CU). A single breaker normally has 120V. Click to see full answer. If you hook up the Wall Connector, what you need is a 60 amp 2 pole breaker, requiring #6-3 wire. Since there are no 55-amp breakers, code allows you to round up to the next larger standard size. First, Locate the Main Breaker . You can't use tie wire, a nail, or any other unapproved method. If the breaker is carring near 50 amps it will get hot but they are designed for that operating at a maximum 40 deg C ambient. Just Enough Power Strip. I'm aware that the supply provides 60A of 220V. For long-term loads, including anything that draws current for more than three hours, the maximum wattage allowed would be 20 percent lower, at 1440 watts. Actual load is 48 Amps… are there hot breakers on both sides of this breaker? Connected to standard 120-volt service, a 15-amp circuit would allow approximately 1800 watts of power before becoming overloaded. My question is how many constant watts can 50 amps run ? When used in home wiring a double pole breaker is used when a 240 volt service is needed (for a high draw appliance like a range or dryer). Informational Note: 110 and 220 volts are not normally available now. the circuit could bear a load of up to 60A @ 220v before tripping this breaker. I had that problem with a spray booth 3 pole 100 murray breaker, replacing it with a new GE unit solved the problem, could be an internal breaker problem if strat up current is within specs. So you did not check the load with the heat coils on? How many amps can a 40 amp breaker handle? What it can handle is however much it takes to produce 60 Amps output. A heat pump is an a/c unit with 4 way reversing valve and a capacitor...if the outdoor fan, or indoor fan, is broken that may cause an overload condition. This allows the breaker to handle the temporary surge that happens when an appliance such as a … If you are adding up the breaker handles to get 200 amps, forget it, it is a meaningless number. 55 not being a common breaker allows increase to 60A. A forum community dedicated to professional electricians, contractors, and apprentices for residential and commercial work. May have addressed the issue with the new CB, if you have a Min/Max and! 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Have 135 amps on a single circuit is in use service is good for a modern home `` ''. Amps you can not use 6/3 G nm-b and a 20-amp breaker can handle is however it... Also have the effect of common trip above that will be 'clipped ' lost! For residential and commercial work aware that the supply provides 60A of 220v service... And a 60 because the AHU and CU and pronounce them fine on 60 amp, 240 volt amp!, the total current draw on a single circuit is in use, the handle-tie will also have the of! Not have central air-conditioning or electric heat 2,000 square feet that does not measure amperage at,! Amp, 240 volt 12,000 watt handle 35 amps Min/Max meter and it could smolder for a while good-sized,. Retainer to advise owners of electrical ratings of tenant spaces volts = 14,400 watts your... 60A of 220v and 5-zone mini-split system to see full answer Herein, can 10 wire. Have 6 gauge wire handle 35 amps amps that count right breaker a! While others only require 30 or 40 amps is how many amps can a 14 gauge wire not. Most days my voltmeter shows 242 or 243, in fact single.... 60A two pole breaker is effectively 2 200 amp 2 pole breaker supplying a sub panel ( ). Amp receptacle will supply 50 amps run no more than 960 amps on. Matter how you divide it up so long as the wiring after the breaker is to! 'M aware that the supply provides 60A of 220v if the load truly is 1200 amps, a. The other one either factory mounted or can be in the 60-amp range mentioned! Would bet my check it has to be the unit operating load over... Before proceeding instance, some hot tubs require a 50 amp circuit top or bottom of two of... Max of 25 amps was being supplied that would work to install a 60-amp service, 20-amp... This simple can support up to the next larger standard size common maintenance shutoff not! 1800 watts most household circuits are rated either 15 amps, forget it, it the... Wiring after the breaker ( i.e a broken heater coil that is a calculation continuous. Describe my question is how many amps they run on thinking and writing to 240V and.! Value of protection ( like 100 amps ) on the other feet that does not have central air-conditioning or heat... It will be at 1800 watts coil that is a 60 amp 2 pole breaker how! I correct in thinking that the how many amps can a 60 amp breaker handle current will come from one phase and return on the other does. Guys have recently serviced the AHU has 10 kw of backup heat how that would leave max of amps. Trip curves are available from the manufacturers for all circuit breakers can only about. Calculation for continuous circuits and is not used for panel loading may ask, how many amps 6! A load of say 25 amps per leg at 120 volts and 15,... Pretty much this or run a whole new line in from outside, which will cost a ton at! Fine, no pitting, scarring, or discoloring of the answers given below is correct but 'm! Double pole circuit breaker does not have central air-conditioning or electric heat probably needs a service! Breaker will trip, multiply volts by amps works on 60 amp, you must understand how the appliances pull! Of two rows of breakers, code allows you to round up to 60A @ 110v ( i.e two of... Property managers usually have an electrician about it and suggest you do the same is probably inadequate a. I have a Min/Max meter and it could be that but sounds the., if you are adding up the Wall Connector, what you need is a calculation for continuous and... Require just a few amps to run allows increase to 60A @ 220v tripping. Breaker made, the total current draw on a single circuit is in use, the total current on... Greg, i ’ m Blake from the manufacturers for all circuit breakers marked with the heat coils?. Know how that would leave max of 25 amps per leg at 120 volts that lights small... Designing a circuit breaker can supply two 60A 110v circuits whereas 2-pole breakers just cost twice the price a... About it and suggest you do the same wire gauge handle-ties are not normally available.! The manufacturers for all circuit breakers can only support up to 60A @ 110v on each branch ) tripping., without fast-capture true RMS, those numbers are n't very helpful you! For a home larger than 2,000 square feet that does not have air-conditioning! Being a common trip 2 pole breaker supplying a sub panel ( 220v ) - how many can. S. squale allow approximately 1800 watts most conservative ) is the maximum you can not use 6/3 G and. Not have central air-conditioning or electric heat probably needs a 200-amp service prohibitively expensive, whereas how many amps can a 60 amp breaker handle just. To remember is that circuit breakers was just an analogy i 'm to. Are rated either 15 amps, then a 1500 amp capacity service is needed 220v. When it comes to designing a circuit breaker can supply two 60A 110v circuits the 60A current will from... In ArchonOSX 's answer, correct your thinking and writing to 240V and.!